{"id":11069,"date":"2020-12-17T10:00:00","date_gmt":"2020-12-17T16:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/?p=11069"},"modified":"2026-02-26T13:37:42","modified_gmt":"2026-02-26T19:37:42","slug":"author-jon-sweeney-finding-comfort-and-confidence-in-the-mess","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/2020\/12\/17\/author-jon-sweeney-finding-comfort-and-confidence-in-the-mess\/","title":{"rendered":"Jon Sweeney: Finding Comfort and Confidence in the Mess"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide has-media-on-the-right is-stacked-on-mobile\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"683\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-683x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11071 size-full\" srcset=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-683x1024.jpg 683w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-1365x2048.jpg 1365w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-100x150.jpg 100w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-200x300.jpg 200w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-768x1152.jpg 768w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-1200x1800.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-1568x2352.jpg 1568w, https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-scaled.jpg 1707w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 683px) 100vw, 683px\" \/><\/figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">&#8220;I sometimes feel like part of my vocation in the world is to tell people that messiness is normal.&#8221;<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Season 2, Episode 7 of Messy Jesus Business, hosted by Sister Julia Walsh<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>LISTEN HERE:<\/p>\n\n\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmessyjesusbusiness%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmessyjesusbusiness%2FS2_E7-Author_Jon_Sweeney.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fcustomwordpresssites.com%2Fmjb%2F2020%2F12%2F17%2Fauthor-jon-sweeney-finding-comfort-and-confidence-in-the-mess%2F#mode-Light&border-000000&progress-000000\" scrolling=\"no\" width=\"100%\" height=\"165\" frameborder=\"0\" id=\"blubrryplayer-1\" class=\"blubrryplayer\" title=\"Blubrry Podcast Player\"><\/iframe><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/messyjesusbusiness\/content.blubrry.com\/messyjesusbusiness\/S2_E7-Author_Jon_Sweeney.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/?powerpress_pinw=11069-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/messyjesusbusiness\/content.blubrry.com\/messyjesusbusiness\/S2_E7-Author_Jon_Sweeney.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"S2_E7-Author_Jon_Sweeney.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_amazon\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Amazon Music\" rel=\"nofollow\">Amazon Music<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_pandora\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Pandora\" rel=\"nofollow\">Pandora<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_iheart\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on iHeartRadio\" rel=\"nofollow\">iHeartRadio<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_jiosaavn\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on JioSaavn\" rel=\"nofollow\">JioSaavn<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_podchaser\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Podchaser\" rel=\"nofollow\">Podchaser<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_gaana\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Gaana\" rel=\"nofollow\">Gaana<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_pcindex\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Podcast Index\" rel=\"nofollow\">Podcast Index<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_deezer\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Deezer\" rel=\"nofollow\">Deezer<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_anghami\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Anghami\" rel=\"nofollow\">Anghami<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/catholic-podcast\/subscribe-to-podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_more\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"More\" rel=\"nofollow\">More<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>IN THIS EPISODE:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In Season 2, Episode 7 of Messy Jesus Business, Sister Julia Walsh talks with author Jon Sweeney about his journey from Evangelical Christianity and the Moody Bible Institute to writing about saints, becoming Catholic and marrying a rabbi. They also explore his thoughts on what Christians need to know and respect about Judaism.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s a lot of things that Christians need to do to be sensitive to their Jewish neighbors,&#8221; Sweeney explains. Among them, &#8220;to uncover some of the sort-of anti-Jewishness that is actually in the pages sometimes of our scriptures.&#8221;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sister Julia and Jon Sweeney also discuss how the story of St. Francis of Assisi and Franciscanism influence him. &#8220;It&#8217;s like I need to keep St. Francis really close to remind me that it&#8217;s the heart that matters, and it&#8217;s not the stuff that I read on a page that matters, and that the two are not necessarily related,&#8221; he says.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, what does he think is messy about living a life of faith? &#8220;What&#8217;s not messy?&#8221; He asks, explaining that the mess is normal. &#8220;I am so much more worried about the people who think that there aren&#8217;t messes, or who all they want to do is clean up the messes and live in a clean, unmessied place. I am so much more comfortable and frankly confident among the messy.&#8221;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sister Julia and Jon also talk about his new book about Nicholas Black Elk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>ABOUT THE GUEST:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jon M. Sweeney is an award-winning author who has been interviewed in print by a range of publications from the Dallas Morning News to The Irish Catholic, and on television for CBS Saturday Morning and many other programs. His book, &#8220;The Pope Who Quit,&#8221; was optioned by HBO. He\u2019s also the author of 40 other books including a new biography, &#8220;Nicholas Black Elk: Medicine Man, Catechist, Saint;&#8221; &#8220;The Complete Francis of Assisi;&#8221; &#8220;Inventing Hell;&#8221; &#8220;Thomas Merton: An Introduction to His Life and Practices,&#8221; forthcoming from St. Martin\u2019s Press; and &#8220;The Pope\u2019s Cat&#8221; series of books for children.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jon recently edited and presented two collections of the lectures of Thomas Merton including, &#8220;A Course in Christian Mysticism&#8221; and his coauthored volumes (with Mark S. Burrows) of Meister Eckhart poems, including Meister Eckhart\u2019s &#8220;Book of the Heart,&#8221; which has been translated and published in other languages.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the late 1990s, Jon cofounded a multifaith publishing house, SkyLight Paths Publishing, in Vermont. Today, he is the publisher at Paraclete Press in Massachusetts, speaks regularly at literary and religious conferences, is a Catholic married to a rabbi, and their interfaith marriage has been profiled in national media. He\u2019s active on social media (Twitter @jonmsweeney; Facebook jonmsweeney) and lives in Milwaukee.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>CONTEMPLATIVE MOMENT:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Our Contemplative Moment in this episode of Messy Jesus Business is taken from the <a href=\"https:\/\/uploads.weconnect.com\/mce\/9587915e367335b4e286dbc435585857db78c0c5\/Black%20Elk%20Holy%20Card.pdf\">Prayer for the Canonization of Nicholas Black Elk<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is produced and hosted by Sister Julia Walsh and edited by Charish Badzinski.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Email us at&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:messyjesusbusiness@gmail.com\">messyjesusbusiness@gmail.com<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>BE SOCIAL:&nbsp;<br><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/MessyJesusBusiness\"><br>https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/MessyJesusBusiness<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/messyjesusbusiness\">https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/messyjesusbusiness<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Twitter: @messyjesusbiz<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>SUPPORT US:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/messyjesusbusiness\">https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/messyjesusbusiness<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Sister Julia Walsh talks with author Jon Sweeney about his journey from Evangelical Christianity and Moody Bible Institute to writing about saints, becoming Catholic and marrying a rabbi. They also explore his thoughts on what Christians need to know and respect about Judaism. And they discuss Jon Sweeney's new book about Nicholas Black Elk.","protected":false},"author":3902083,"featured_media":12399,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_kad_blocks_custom_css":"","_kad_blocks_head_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_body_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_footer_custom_js":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"","filesize":"","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":"","_kad_post_transparent":"","_kad_post_title":"","_kad_post_layout":"","_kad_post_sidebar_id":"","_kad_post_content_style":"","_kad_post_vertical_padding":"","_kad_post_feature":"","_kad_post_feature_position":"","_kad_post_header":false,"_kad_post_footer":false,"_kad_post_classname":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[698755390],"tags":[4256,698755551,698755509,525076,698755553,698755550,12717,698755552,698755392,524277],"series":[698756626],"class_list":["post-11069","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","tag-catholicism","tag-christian-authors","tag-faith-and-community","tag-franciscan","tag-jesus-was-not-killed-by-the-jews","tag-jon-sweeney","tag-judaism","tag-nicholas-black-elk","tag-podcast","tag-st-francis-of-assisi","series-messy-jesus-business"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/Author-photo-Jon-Jon-M.-Sweeney-1568x2352-sq-600x600-1.jpg","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/wp-content\/plugins\/seriously-simple-podcasting\/assets\/images\/no-album-art.png","download_link":"","player_link":"","audio_player":false,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"dark","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"stitcher":{"key":"stitcher","url":"","label":"Stitcher","class":"stitcher","icon":"stitcher.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/feed\/podcast\/messy-jesus-business","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"OAt1GiTJey\"><a href=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/2020\/12\/17\/author-jon-sweeney-finding-comfort-and-confidence-in-the-mess\/\">Jon Sweeney: Finding Comfort and Confidence in the Mess<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/customwordpresssites.com\/mjb\/2020\/12\/17\/author-jon-sweeney-finding-comfort-and-confidence-in-the-mess\/embed\/#?secret=OAt1GiTJey\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Jon Sweeney: Finding Comfort and Confidence in the Mess&#8221; &#8212; Messy Jesus Business\" data-secret=\"OAt1GiTJey\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! 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